Alias
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Dingwalls Bullshit, Or, Too Many Daves.Or, Was It You?
Right, I'll set the scene:
It is 1976 and The Stranglers are hotter than Dingwall's bullshit. The press are courting them, they are being offered more and more prestige gigs (Patti Smith and, most recently The Ramones) and their peers either a) "Hardly miss a gig", b) "Want a band like theirs", c) "Want to be in their band" or d) Just want a couple of free music lessons from them.
ANSWERS:
a) The Pistols b) Joe Strummer c) Chrissie Hynde d) The Pistols, again.
One night all of the above met up for a drink and as the next morning rose the Stranglers were anti-social pariahs, despised and vilified by the press, back-stabbed by the same so called "peers" and soon to be written out of all future Punk tomes by aggrieved and petty journos.
Yup, we all know the story, right?
But here's what keeps bugging me whenever I read another account of that great epoch in Punk history -
Who had Rotten by the throat?
Think about it.
Described (as a pivotal moment ), most recently in the latest most excellent Burning Up Times PDF, Gary Coward-Williams' account of the night in question appears to point the finger squarely at Dagenham Dave, although, interestingly, the addition Dagenham has been affixed to Coward-William's recollections,
"Rotten ..was smashed into the side of the Sex Piston's van by (Dagenham) Dave."
For the record Coward-William's also tells the same version in Chris Twomey's brilliant The Men They Love To Hate book, and this version is slightly more decisive,
"In the confusion Dagenham Dave thought that Rotten must have had something to do with all this so he walked straight up to him and punched him WHACK against the side of the van".
So we'll call that 1- nil to Dagenham Dave.
Ding Ding! Round 2:
The infamous incident is also mentioned in a cracking 7 page article in Mojo (Aug 2002), with interviews from both Hugh & JJ-
"Alongside Burnel were Jet Black and Dave Greenfield" Keith Cameron, the writer, states, then JJ recounts,
"Dave Greenfield had Lydon against the transit "
Pretty convincing, especially as it comes from JJ himself.
Of course, you may be thinking (like I was), that mibee JJ only said "Dave" had him against the transit, and the journo just assumed he meant Greenfield, but in the article JJ continues,
,"First time I'd ever seen him violent- and the last."
which I think pretty much rules out that possibility.
1 Each, then.
So how about the view from the other corner, the Clash camp?
Another great read is Passion Is A Fashion, The Real Story Of The Clash by Pat Gilbert, and in he states,
"As Simonon and Burnel squared up to each other, the Stranglers' usually pacific keyboard-player, Dave Greenfield, went berserk and threw Rotten up against the old ice-cream van in which the band carted their gear around."
Again JJ appears to be the source of this version.
Account from No Mercy to be added later, when I can find the bastard, but I'm pretty positive it cites Dagenham Dave as the main contender in there.
Anyone else wondered about this?
Lets hear yer theories then.
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Alias
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Okay. Just me again then, isit? 
Alright, alright. Mickey's a mouse. Donald's a duck. Pluto's a dog. What's Goofy?
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yellowcakeuf6
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Re: Dingwalls Bullshit, Or, Too Many Daves. | Alias wrote: | | Account from No Mercy to be added later, when I can find the bastard, but I'm pretty positive it cites Dagenham Dave as the main contender in there. |
From GCW.......
I remember Johnny Rotten was leaning with his back to the door of the Pistols' transit. Dag Dave , Jet and I were standing together and there were assorted members of the opposition hanging around. A classic Mexican stand-off - straight out of a spaghetti western - with John and Simonen in the middle facing each other off.... I looked to uncle Jet for guidance, his response was, "Just wait till it starts then get stuck in!"  As far as Jet and Dag Dave were concerned if John and Simonen were going to fight, then that was thier business, but if anyone else was going to have a go, then we would all pile in. With the atmosphere in this highly charged state, Rotten decided to make a remark - I forget what he said, but it was probably uncomplimentary. Dag Dave , seeing this as an opportunity to show that he meant business, thumped Rotten squarely in the chest with the flat of his hand, smashing him against the van door, and on the rebound he grabbed Rotten by the throat, telling him in no uncertain terms that no one else was to be involved. Rotten was shitting himself big time ,and rightly so - Dave would have beaten him senseless if he had retaliated. This act broke the tension and John and Simonen decided to call it 'quits'. Throughout the whole episode, Hugh watched the proceedings from the inside of the ice-cream van with the girls - he wanted to have no part in the punch-up ,which at the time really shocked me. However, with hindsight, probably being sensible.
I reckon it was that bird...........Hindleg?????
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Alias
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So what do you reckon then mate, it must have been Dag.Dave really, but I'd love to think it was Dave G
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Organ Grinder
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JJ recounted his version of events at the SIS convention that was released on video some time in the nineties and he clearly states Dave Greenfield had Rotten up against the ice cream van (oo-err!). Dave quietly sits chortling his Superking cackle as JJ recounts the story so maybe he just goes along with it as it's good old fashioned Stranglers mythology that makes PR legend? 
My money is on Dag Dave being the Dave involved. JJ was pee'd up on half a bottle of red so probably only recalls the event thru second hand witness statements supplied to him by equally squiffy mates the next day.
Bundles always get spiced up after the event don't they? 
Case closed! 
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