[Organ Grinder]

Thought I'd do a rerun of the thread I psoted a coupla years back about Daves keyboards over the years.

Dave started off life in the Stranglers using the Vox Continental . He graduated to a Hammond L100 which is the instrument you hear playing the A Minor stabs at the intro to Hanging Around and what plays the lines in Wog and countless other great tracks from the early years. Very heavy instrument and Daves opts to use more modern instruments nowdays to save the roadies backs! He also used a Hohner Cembalet, seen here on top of a Hammond M100 (very similar to the L100 which Dave used). This is the famous instrument which poduced the melodies for Heroes, Tank and Toiler amongst many others. Dave can no longer use this machine because he cannot get parts or spares for it. A staple around this time was also the trusty MiniMoog used on such freak-outs as Nubiles and Nice and Sleazy. Still used to this day in his live rig.

When the Raven came in he switched to more adventurous analogue synths such as the Oberheim OB-XA, the truly collosal Oberheim 4 Voice, and the Korg Vocoder which was later used on the vocal parts for North Winds and Always the Sun.

During the late eighties he started using two Akai S1000's with an Akai Rackmount. Throughout this time he also used the Roland JD800. He's used a hammond rackmount and an MXR100 phaser throughout the later part of the eighties and early nineties, probably still used today. In the studio the hammond sounds don't come from his rakmount but a proper Hammond C3 and a Leslie speaker, seen here with the back off and the workings exposed.

There was another keyboard he used during the eighties (a blue one) whose name escapes me and I can't check it because my mate nicked me magazine with the details in.

He no longer uses the Akai's (see them at close range on the Ally Pally gig) either and his new keyboards I cannot post about because once again my mate has the details and he's done a runner with the magazine that listed them all, so sorry abou that. This list is not exhaustive and I've probably missed some important gear out but some of you just wanted the best I could offer so here it is - the best I can do given my current resources.

Hope this is of interest. :)



Edited By Organ Grinder on 1103054746

[theraven1979]

Nice one fella - I know absolutely nothing about keyboards but didn`t he use one called a "Wasp" ? Also, what was the one in the WWTW vid?

Jim

[gizzard]

[Organ Grinder]

Ah yes, the Wasp, used originally for the melody of the Nuclear Device break if I recall correctly.

Nice one mate. :)

[theraven1979]

What`s your (and everyone elses - don`t be shy!) fave Dave keyboard moment and what`s the best keyboard. Also what other artists use some of those keyboards above and anyone using them today ?

That`s your homework for tonight Grinder. :D

Jim

[gizzard]

[Organ Grinder]

I think it would be Toiler too! The best peice of equipment has to be the hammond, both the L100 (which was my first ever hammond) and the C3 (what I have now). Although, I would kill to have an Oberheim 4 Voice which was used on the Raven and in the Japan live footage on the 'Battersea Plus' video from SIS.

[Organ Grinder]

Althought the hammond work in Hanging Around is what originally lit my s for the funky, spooky vibe of the riff.

[theraven1979]

There`s so many quality Dave moments really. What is amusing is that The Stranglers were regarded as being a bit washed down cos they had a keyboardist in the lineup when in actual fact it`s possibly (one of the major) what makes them stand out. Adds a whole new dimension.

Jim

[Alex]

[theraven1979]

Ah yeah it was on Blue Peter that week - I remember now :D


Jim

[shah]

The Oberheim sound on The Raven was fantastic.
My favorite bit is the wind down on Genetix - always turn that right up when it's on. It was a great close to the gigs in the early eighties - when JJ and Hugh would wind down like clockwork dolls.

I really like the icicle effect on EF too.
Raven is majestic all the way through
and the low end burp in the middle of Tank when the band are about to kick back into the main hook.

And, of course, the "woh-eeeeee-woh-ooouuu" when the band kick in on Shah.

[Grenouille 2]

[seeingtree]

I used to have a wasp. Bought because it featured on Bauhaus's Burning from the Inside. I had that, the 101, the teeny pt30 and the casio sk5 which along with the sk1 were probably the first afordable tiny sampling keyboards.

I still have the (fully working) pt30 but the others got sold in the late 80s.

My favourite is the straight ol Hammond.

[parasiteinblack]

I'm quite a modern chap and so I have a KORG microsynth.

[droopsnoot]

I am no keyboard expert, but I recall reading about a 'PPG Wave' at some point, and I think a 'wave term' for sampling sounds?

[theraven1979]

I was inspired to get a really crap small Casio from the 80`s. Wanted to go for that Julian Cope cheap casio backing track with accoustic guitar feel. Shame I ain`t got a) An accoustic b) any form of talent

Jim

[nickb]

What was the touch sensitive thing he used in Tolier which is so difficult to play?

[Keninblack]

In the 80's, he was using a PPG Wave 2.3 as the bottom keyboard, a PPG Wave 2.2 in the middle, topped off with an Oberheim OB8 with the mini moog at the side and the PPG Wave Term sitting on the floor. Sound on Sound described the PPG as a keyboard that looked like a row of rotten teeth.

The bottom keyboard at the Ally Pally gig was an Ensoniq EPS Sampler which he ditched for another Akai S1000kb.

Recent setup has got rid of the Moog Lets face it, running a rig with a 30+ year old synth isn't going to be easy. The Moog I think has been replaced by some Novation unit, but I couldn't get close enough on Friday to suss out what it was. Unfortunately, unless he uses some sample loops, we've heard the last of Nubiles and Sleazy.

Samplers wise, he's now using rack mounted Akai S3000s (or S3000XLs) as the old Akai 1000's are too unreliable and too expensive to maintain. These are driven from 2 Yamaha DX7s.

Remembering the Rockstage and Rockpalast videos, there was another Oberheim next to the Moog. Possibly an OB1 which he used for the random LFO effect at the start of JLNOE.

[Organ Grinder]

Bloody nice one Ken! :notworthy:

PPG Wave was the one that was blue right? Couldn't for the life of me recall it's name... :wallbash:

Cheers for filling in the gaps. If I don't copy this thread then perhaps Jim'll fix it to the archives for prosperity?

[Organ Grinder]

NickB,

The instrument used on Toiler, Tank, Heroes et al was the Hohner Cembelet. Dunno if it was touch sensitive, doubtful, perhaps Ken can clear that up?

[Keninblack]

Yip, PPG's were the big and blue ones. Tried to get one on Ebay a few months ago only to be sniped :angry:

According to 'tinternet, the Cembalet wasn't touch sensitive (http://p209.ezboard.com/fclavinetdotcommessageboard39332frm1.showMessage?topicID=217.topic)

[Frederik]

What was that strap on thing he had in the Nice in Nice vid?

[evonx]

Quote:

What was that strap on thing he had in the Nice in Nice vid?

It was horrible!:D

[Keninblack]

It could have been a Yamaha KX5 ( http://www.indecision.co.uk/yahama_kx5.htm ) Was it not used in the Always the Sun vid as well?



Edited By Keninblack on 1103155585

[gazincumbria]

[theraven1979]

Hehe - yeah love that stripped down Radio sesh Cope and his casio vibe

Jim

[jimbo]

I noticed since late last year that Dave has not got the MINI MOOG beside him anymore but something else which I do not know what it is as it is very small but does the same job check out the latest photoson the Electriscope site and there is a picture of the set up, as Baz said to myself in an E- mail last year you don,t miss A TRICK DO YOU and I have to say no as I like to see if the band have got anything new and always have done I suppose it is progression and probably what dave is using is a new form of Moog let me know.

[raveninblack]

[Organ Grinder]

Ah the CP30! That's another one I couldn't remember and which he uses for the arpeggio's on the Japanese footage of 'Battersea Plus' on Hanging Around. Big mother. Not sure if he got that before B&W or not - I always thought it was the cembalet because (and it's not a good reason) he mimes with a cembalet on the Sweden video, which is of course from B&W.

It can be a real game piecing the jigsaw together with some of the Dave stuff, including what he actually plays! For example:

Took me hours and hours when I was 14 to learn the arpeggios to Hanging Around. Suppose it may have helped had I known what a chord was at that time (self taught) because he's skipping up and down the octaves using the notes of the chord changes Dm, F, C - not rocket science, but fucking crazy! I was sat in front of my VCR and TV, pause/AV'ing the 'Rock Goes To College' footage over and over (hence my copy has worn thin) to see which notes his pinkys were plonking on in the brief nanosecond that the camera rested on his hand during the first chorus!

My brother used to say even back then that I was obsessed. I was a quiet young chappie who used to do his homework - I heard Hanging Around - and now look at me! :laugh:

[C r a s s !]

[Organ Grinder]

Quote:

(forgot her name - Penny Toblerone??

Looks a tidy bit in that vid. :)

[C r a s s !]

Those PPG W2.2s were quite a handful according to my mate who had one and was always swearing at it for losing the settings he'd just done. Did they lose their information? I dunno, but I stood watching a bloke called Michael from that band King play one ("GET YOUR BOOTS ON!!") and he seemed pretty delft at it. King... now there's a thought? Yeuch!


crass :D

[jonimac]

[Organ Grinder]

The Yamaha CP30 was touch sensitive - listening to the Battersea Plus Jap footage of Hairging Aroo you can hear the inconsistancies in the dynamics. I fuckin hate touch sensitive keyboards for anything other than piano.

[gazincumbria]

[Damian]

Dave actually used an Oberheim 8 Voice which is a larger version of the 4 voice. The keyboard that was to the right of the mini moog post 1980 that did the intro to JLNOE was an OB1, if you were at the convention Peteborough 1992 this was actually sold in the auction that Owen was doing. Speaking of the Korg vocoder do you remember the roadie coming on stage and standing behind Dave to hold down the chords during the last chorus of Northwinds on the Dreamtime/shakin tour march 1987?

[CURFEW]

It was the lilting keyboard sound of Peaches that 1st got me into the Stranglers in the Summer of 77. It was just so fucking different!

Fave "keyboardie Dave the rave" bits have to be: Toiler, Tank, the 5 Minutes intro (on the MiniMoog, BTW, what note is he playing?), and the silliness of Rok It To The Moon (underrated masterpiece, surely)

[Keninblack]

[theraven1979]

moving to forums gold.....


Jim

[markorbit]

LEAD SOUND ON THE RAVEN - How would one go about recreating this glorious sound? I know it's probably an Oberheim 4 or 8 voice synth on the record but what I'm looking for is:

- How many oscillators in use?
- Which wave shapes?
- at which octaves?

Wouldn't mind trying to recreate this sound. Anybody done it?

[raveninblack]

Ask suchi to ask Mick from 4mh....he'll tell you!

[markorbit]

[Arthur Streeb-Greebling]

Great thread, so what is Dave using these days? (Studio /Live)
Is he using any Softsynths, btw does anyone know if Dave is a Mac or PC user?

Just bought myself Logic Pro 7 for my new Dual Core PowerMac G5, also using GMedia M-Tron, Spectrasonics Atmosphere, Spectrasonics Sylus RMX, Spectrasonics Trilogy, FXPansion BFD, Synthogy Ivory.
Also have Novation KStation & microKORG Synth's, using the KStation as the midi controller and the microKORG for messing about on (Can play it anywhere as it can run on batteries, a great little synth)
Cheers.

[C r a s s !]

I'm glad you reminded me Streeb... FYI: to all the guys who sussed out the keys in Dave's rig... I put it to Dave himself not too long ago. His response was... nothing. Not a jot. Sorry, but I tried my hardest.

[Arthur Streeb-Greebling]

[GRIFF]

Fave Dave mo is watching him on the Rockstage vid playing genetix. All those wonderful litlle pieces that link the verses, then the instrumental towards the end is awesome THEN the wind down. When they played Genetix and The Raven in the 80s , those moments seemed to last forever with the high and low screeches in the Raven to that BIG wind down in Genetix. It was an awesome way to stop the number, and gave you massive shivers down the back bone. On another thread about C.T.C. thru is right about Daves playing. He is as smooth as (bar getting a little ahead with the W.O.B. solo) but I really miss his old sounds. I know Dave likes technology, I thought he would have loved the challenge of emulating his Obi/ Hohner/ hammond sounds.

Daves sound reeked atmosphere, and gave the band that dark powerful, eccentric edge. Even when the band had there gear nicked way back, when I heard them on the meninblack tour the sound was soooo different, and even then we all thought they had lost a little something, that edge so to speak. Jets drums sound cool in the mix, jj has got one hell of a rig and bass, baz has all angles covered, and paul gives it laldy. Dave however has the technology.............we can rebuild him, the worlds first bioni.......... sorry Dave. It would change their live dynamic 100% for the better if he could capture those sounds. My anorak needs a rest, and I am of to sharpen me handbag

[theraven1979]

He should call one of his keyboards HAL - I can imagine him going to switch the keyboard off then "Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?. I really think I'm entitled to an answer to that question"

"my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going"

Jim

[LUKEJAKE17]

[Mazec]

About Dave's technique: Judging by his organ lines such as those on the chorus of Hanging Around and the verses of Grip, doesn't it seem like he's the fastest keyboardist around?

Almost inhumanly fast... I've never heard any other rock keyboardist come close to Dave's velocity ... not Ray Manzarek or anybody.

Makes me wonder if he was playing it all by hand or if he used some kind of sequencing to do ultra-fast arpeggios with one touch of the key.

I've been wondering about this since I first heard Rattus... has anybody got any input on this?

[Alias]